How to spread deal in Gamma ? beta user question

Hallo, i m quite fighting with gamma about spreads and types.

I had to reinvent the wheel to check 2 booleans spreads where i presume there should be a simple node for it like =(Spectral).
I m not finding any Mean(Spectral). Nor finding documentation or threads about this topic.
Passing form vectors, to spread of spread and so on… pfiou…

So a question: Is anybody working on a friendly high end node library for beta users ?
Thank you


The loss of spreads functionality is the most significant loss for Gamma.

I tend to agree with developers that it is very dangerous to bring back this functionality. It is difficult to implement and very difficult to maintain. In the end, it’s easier to learn how to work around it.

I’d like to help you solve your problem, but I can’t quite make out what you’re trying to do from the screenshot. By the way, I should point out that you probably have a bug in the patch if you don’t use the ForEach(max) version of the region, because the smaller of the two sets will be used as the base amount of repeats and stops after that.

Probably could be helpful:


If this is the solution you are looking for, I would suggest looking at the Sequence and Spread categories for existing functionality. In fact, they are also classes that contain a huge amount of functionality at the .NET level. Now the Gamma user (who is essentially a developer) doesn’t have to ask the developers to implement some functionality that in beta was a wrapper around the standard libraries. Now you can use that core functionality yourself.

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Thank you @yar yes it was i m looking for.

Now the Gamma user (who is essentially a developer) doesn’t have to ask the developers to implement some functionality that in beta was a wrapper around the standard libraries. Now you can use that core functionality yourself.

I understand, but please remember that beta user are not developpers only, and come from other fields, where a too much low level became an infernal experience.

If Gamma community is only developpers way, i think VVVV will loose the beta community. Loosing many hours just for simple things is bad bad bad… Or someone implement a strong tutorial to help beta users migrates to gamma.

Beta users are artists, technicians, autodidacts people and not formatted by years of practice with C#. The goal is usually something else. The goal is to produce in an easy way a visual result, not really at the beginning to produce a software.
I understand the language create the tool. And it has its constraints.

Writting a kind of Bridge Beta2Gamma tutorial would be strongly helpfull and maybe avoid bad and violent experience with gamma.

Anyway thank you a lot for your help. I m completely gratefull and will look deeply at sequences.

EDIT: no help patch for sequences ?

Yo @karistouf,

Did you check this section of the Gray Book?

On the left-side menu, you have dedicated pages for various topics such as User Interface, Document Structure, etc. Some screenshots are still missing here, but that could already shed light on some beta/gamma differences.

And since you were asking about spreads, you could check this video :

The vvvvTv Youtube channel has a bunch of specific HowTo videos such as this one.

There’s also this video by @chk that covers spreads (also check the whole playlist) :

Just found out @Takuma also made a video on the topic :

And to finish, there’s also this vvvvery old series of tutorials by @joreg, and most notably these “spreads vs spreading” videos that I remember finding quite helpful at the time. Gamma was not a thing back then, so it shows VL used inside vvvv beta, but the rationale would still apply.

Now to answer your questions

If you type “mean” in the node browser, you should see a node called “Average”, which does exactly that :


I think it would help if you created individual topics for those very specific questions. If you struggle with that, there’s a high change that other users would do as well, and having very specific topics helps massively when searching for information.

In VL, Sequence is basically a generic name for “a collection”. A Spread is a certain type of sequence, same for Dictionary.

Nodes that you will find in the Sequence category can apply to any “collection”. But nodes in the Spread category will only work on spreads.

If you’re looking for help on that topic, check the Collection section of the help browser. You should fine quite a bunch of useful stuff in there.


Hope this helps.

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Hi @sebescudie :) ! thanks a lot for all this links. Already passed many of them thruth, done a half winter course etc… But i would look again !

Mainly i think struggle is from extracting types of data or informations from a collection, and transtype it (?).
If i have a spread of spread of vector3, how do i get a precise vector3 without having the spread of spread…
dealing with it is strange, and flatten existence is prooving somehow that this struggle thing is real :)

ok, i will do a post for the spread vector conversion:)
thank you


Although @sebescudie has already answered your question in great detail, I would like to add a few things of my own.

I think the main thing Beta users need is something like psychotherapy with an inspirational message, an inspirational session. Gamma is very different from Beta. I often meet users who have never seen Beta and don’t know what you’re talking about. Do you understand the whole situation? People ask me questions about Beta, and sometimes I help them, but I myself, despite my experience since 2006, sometimes just watch for a few minutes, trying to remember how it works. I am sometimes horrified by what I have had to deal with on a daily basis.

You have to learn how to work with the new software. It’s new software, it’s very similar to the old beta, but it’s completely new. The developers got rid of the old software because it no longer met their vision of how things should work. And we should accept that.

My advice to you as an experienced user is to accept the difference between this software, accept that this is largely a community effort, and get involved in helping other people learn this tool. And most importantly, keep your self-control and accept that you are now at or just above beginner level, and ask specific questions accordingly. Your well-founded concerns about a lack of documentation won’t help, but good, well-formulated questions will.

To be fair, the documentation is fantastic and I advise students to open every patch in that documentation at least once.

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I’d like to add a thought I had reading @yar 's comment.

I feels kind of misleading to call both Beta and Gamma vvvv as they are two completely different beasts.

hello @yar, its a good answer, very clear, i formelly completely accept it. About inspiration, yes completely, its a question of pedagogy and inspirating key leading to deep understanding. thank you

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merci @sunep