I currently use Ableton Live (with Max4Live) as it pretty accessible, reliable, versatile, and has decent editing, modulation + recording features.
It’s not however the best tool for sequencing visual data as values are the only data type, there is no native osc (with the ui integration benefits that could bring), the automation editing is a little clunky, and it’s expensive
I haven’t found an alternative that addresses these problems while keeping the benefits of Live. http://www.vezerapp.hu/ looks pretty close, but it’s mac only.
I used the Timeliner a litttle while back, and generally enjoyed the experience, though there are a list of bugs I need to forward to the appropriate people.
In the way that vvvv is sparse but fast its pretty good, but there are little issues like network bugs on occasion; it can crash from time to time and the naming system (name of strip+striptype) that can ruin the show unless you careful or like xml editing
Zooming in works up to a point and then th line might be super thick without the point scaling with it. They aren’t show stoppers but you’ll need to spend a bit of time with it to work around its quirks.
just made a 3D mapping marathon during 2 days using ableton + push to control vvvv
of course ableton architecture is different but in a way it’s a good thing to
stick to some basics functions and organize the vvvv patch with a limited amount of controls
eg : 8 controls (macros) per category (tracks)
the fact you don’t need a mouse, nor a keyboard but just the push (with dynamic tracks and parameters name directly on the lcd screen) is INMHO a real advantage.
regarding automation… live is really good if you are in a performing mode, again no mouse editing inside clips, just record actions on the fly and play them back!
the other advantage of this system is the possibility to organize data during the show…just move, sort your medias (clips) into scenes and play them back later
again you can add some fancy modulators to parameters like lfo’s on the fly…
finally the Launch clip feature (random) is really great
at the end of these 2 days i put everything in random mode
and some crazy combinations of Mesh, Gsfx, Lights , Medias and TextureFx emerge from this… the final touch: i was able to walk away for a beer
merci la machine :)
regarding the Live setup it’s quite simple i parse tracks and playing clips name’s to vvvv
the track name define the category
the clip name the patch or the media file to recall (evaluated patch switcher with dynamic R / S nodes)
each track has a Max for live device with 8 parameters assigned to the corresponding vvvv content :
Mesh, Gsfx, medias, Texture Transform, mesh Transform…etc
all is based on name matching with some special keywords
eg: a clip named “random” on the media track use the mesh count and assign n textures (media or generative) to the mesh
it’s of course bi-directional and wysiwyg :
recalling a patch update the 8 parameters values and names in live
you can combine this with some immediate, pickup automation’s behaviors
you also have the possibility to prepare or record on the fly automation curves inside your clips.
here mrboni is right the data’s sent by live are generic
the question is do we need linear sequencing like timeliner, duration…
or non linear like ableton, Vux’s Feraltic Timeline ?
i guess it massively depends on projects…
but i’m pretty sure we all spend a huge amount of time reinventing (the visual sequencing) wheel each time we start a new project! please don’t tell me i’m the only one :)
using ableton may solve a part of this and allow to get the best of both linear
and non-linear worlds
you can use a master clip to trig scenes with predefined timings and content
or manually trig scenes, clips or sequence of clips (launch clip feature) in
a non-linear way.
some more cool features are
the tempo quantification and the multi user (up to 6) with different hardware…
i don’t find the time to try your Message contrib but i’m sure it’s the way to go! so next time it’s champagne!