# BOneBoNEboNE

hi all,here a stupid question,but IM NOT A PROGRAMMER,on bone…
I have try to understand somethig on bone lookin at LAMP patch, but is realy 2 complex for me…eheheheheheh…
So is there anybody here that could explain ,in a simple way plz,how 2 use bone?
i usuallywork with 3d,we are makin some videoof opening flower for an exhibit of a friend,and i think it can be marvellous 2 add some interactivity 2 these flower…
Anybody can help me?(you will have a dinner payed…in italy of course!)

ciao

I’ll try: First make sure you enlarge the patch window so you can see all it’s workings (drag the righthand border). Notice the bone nodes form a chain? Think of it like your arm with the sholder being the base of the lamp. The position of the first bone effects two things: 1) position of next bone (same again for each bone) and 2) position of associated geometry. For the first follow the patch from the first bone to other bones below. For the second look to the right of the patch to the PhongPoint nodes and notice that each is linked to it’s respective bone (this is like the flesh on your arm). That’s really all there is to it except that you can specify the geometry which in this case is a cylinder.

Things to watch out for: alignment of bone with geometry (imagine if the bone was side-on to the geometry, not much will happen), making things too simple (eg, geometry creases where it shouldn’t), making it too complicated (more bones more calculation time, maybe not a problem, I don’t know in vvvv’s case).

Hope this helps and good luck!

PS: Sanch’s LAMP patch looks complicated because the bones adjust to the lights position, or in other words you move your hand to a position without thinking about your wrist, elbow or shoulder. This is called “inverse kinematics” (see Inverse kinematics). The opposite is Forward Kinematics and is simpler to follow. I’m trying to hack together a simpler example but maybe there already is one.

where in italy?
michi.

tnx u dmoc,now i understand something more…not all,of course, but u gave me the way
TNXTNXTNXTNXTNXTNXTNXTNXTNXTNXTNXTNXTNXTNXTNXTNXTNXTNX
TNXTNXTNXTNXTNXTNXTNXTNXTNXTNXTNXTNXTNXTNXTNXTNXTNX :) :) :)
for michel…i live in perugia,but at thhe moment i’m travelling in italy(from top to bottom and viceversa) for some vj set and for watching some exhibition…where are u from?italian?

not 4 watchin, to watch heheheehhehhehhee…

hi mastrobardo!

i made a small patch which only uses the raw bones.
they create a transformation hierarchy. the second bone is transformed by the first one.

so if you build a roboter arm: the shoulder is in the upper part of the patch and fingers are at the bottom of the patch, because they are transformed by the movement of the shoulder the upper arm, the lower arm, the hand.

when you have understood this, then you can to put something onto the bones by transforming any particle, what you like with the transformations coming outof the bone modules.

tip: give a descriptive name to the bones.

@dmoc
inverse kinematic is in fact coming next version with a very small simple node which is only capable of handling 2 bones. the spider battle screenshot is made with it and shows that you can do some great animations with it.

however the lamp patch is not inverse kinematic.

inverse kinematic means that you can specify an end point and the (arm, hand) bones will rotate so that the finger touches this point.
lamp doesn’t work like this. it is just a very nice and tricky animation based on explicit rotation of the bones. the mean thing about the current bone module is that you loose control over all the rotations, because every rotation of a bone is relative to coordinate system of the last bone.

however in the new version another bone module will be available with which you can specify to which global point in space the bone should “look at”. this is easier to handle in some cases.
in other cases like in the attached patch it is just nice to enter oriantation of the bone by relative rotation to the last bone…

sebastian

simple bones.v4p (8.5 kB)

Re IK, yes, stupid me. I just glanced at the patch and assumed this was what it was doing. Thanks for putting me right. Looking forward to next release!

About the original post, ie, opening a flower, yesterday I messed about with grids for a while (not much success, I’m a vvvv newbie). Could gregsn/sebastion comment on this idea and maybe how to do it: I magined the easiest way would be to texture a grid with a “petal” picture and then control each row of the grid to curl/uncurl the petal. This would then form part of a circular spread and with a little more refinement would a convincingly animated flower. Sound reasonable? Are alpha channels supported? Could a vertex shader be used to do the curling, eg, to squash the end of a petal as it curls inwards or curl across bredth as well? It’s seems an interesting exercise (but no bones).

Are alpha channels supported?

yes, create an image on transparent background in photoshop and save as png.

Could a vertex shader be used to do the curling, eg, to squash the end of a petal as it curls inwards or curl across bredth as well?

yes, just make sure to have enough vertices in your mesh - the vertex shader only gets calculated for each vertex.

It’s seems an interesting exercise (but no bones).

maybe a silly idea, what do you think of patching contests? an example task: patch an opening flower or more general growing plants…

would be interesting to see the different aproaches and maybe motivating to have a better, more beautiful, etc solution than the others ;)

I don´t like to much the contest but i like the plants : )
I have make a small patch and i use dynamic mesh
flower.v4p

what do you think of patching contests?

or you could start a paid task at http://www.mechanicalturk.com.
I offer 0.5€ for a mechanical flower. heh heh

okok, no more silly ideas…

lovely patch sanch!!!

by the way, that dynamic meshes really gets slow with higher polygon counts. any chance to get this faster?

tnx u all guys,is beautiful to have so much answer ,and im glad to started this discussion(excuse me if i read these post only today,but i haven’t a connection at my home) and ,of course,u are all invited for a dinner at my home if u’ll come in italy.
now i have a look to the patch…:)

tnxtnx’n’tnx…

gregsn thanks u very much,now i have undertand…some practice and i will become the MASTER OF THEBONE …UARGHUARGH UARG ;)

and sanch:u are a monster,u center my problem.I want to study your patch now,but i htink its a little complex for me at the moment,but i will study and study and study…i dont want to use it if dont understand it in total, but the one day…maybe…

tnx another time
I LOVE VVVV…