Patch Editor UX

[Thomas_Helzle]

@gregsn

others are in the face and surprisingly fast to implement.

Would remembering the patch editor and inspector size and position and open/close state fall under such “low hanging fruit”?
That one is really silly feeling in 2024…
Especially since the default is so 100% wrong every single time.

I’d even be willing to edit some config file…

Edit: Extra points for remembering the last patch view position… if you have your patch off-center, you see empty space at start ATM…

Cheers,

Tom

[yar]

As I had posted in a thread that is primarily focused on bug reports, I’m duplicating it here:

Patch Editor UX. Bug Reports

To illustrate what I mean as much as possible, I ask you to look at this patch. I’ve made an example specifically to make sure that what I’m suggesting is both possible and feels right. After making this patch, I have no doubt that this is how it should be done. Yes, it looks a bit complicated, but trust me, hinting in your phones is an order of magnitude more complicated. DirectionDetectionWithHinting.vl (162.1 KB) DirectionDetectionWithHinting (COMMENTS).vl (170.5 KB) DirectionDetectionWith…

[gregsn]

That’s some great feedback!
Thank you!

We can’t address all of that at the moment, but we read the suggestions carefully and don’t shy away from touching some code.
Thanks again.

[gregsn]

@chk

In my opinion, the setting about sealing the deal could be enabled by default and removed, it is just so handy to constantly seal the deal. But don’t know how others see this… If it is turned off I would suggest to make the link abort / cancel when dropped on the canvas

I guess the main reason to have it turned off is to slow down the UX deliberately.
I want my right to release the finger from the button whenever I want. That’s how I read this mode.
The way the mode currently works, a sloppy click on a pin - internally maybe detected as a drag gesture - still feels like a click to me as the user, since the link is still at the mouse.

So ok. Maybe there is just a third workflow and the setting would need to allow me to choose from:

Drop a link on the patch:

• seal the deal = open node browser or depending on modifier keys do something different
• cancel
• wait for further instructions by the user (EDIT: keep the link at mouse cursor)

But I guess low priority. You anyway found your favorite candidate already = deal.

[Thomas_Helzle]

Well, there is always ESC when I accidentally have created a link stuck to the cursor…?
ATM I use it like:
Drag out a link and open the Browser or use a shortcut.
Click and release for longer distances.
ESC when I did something wrong.

Not sure what “waiting for further instructions” would mean…?
Sounds like a job for Cortana maybe? ;-)

[gregsn]

@Thomas_Helzle

Need to use it more, but the “Drag-dropping a link onto the patch seals the deal” option (extra points for the settings name ;-) ) is very efficient and super interesting. This feels really fluent.
During Genuary I cursed a LOT and wondered if I will ever get used to the clumsy interaction in VVVV, but that feels like history now, even with these first adjustments.

And a Wacom tablet is now a first class citizen with it’s “sloppy” clicks and moves.

I still want a shortcut for the nodebrowser and still think it should be TAB, but I will survive until then with these initial adjustments.

Ok. I can imagine having the “detach from instance” solved differently (ESC is an option and at some other point in time a dedicated UI for instance selection). It makes sense to align a bit with what others have, but give us some time to discuss.
Up to now I basically only added behaviors and tried to not make anything learned obsolete like ingeniously captured in the phrase “everything you now is wrong” 😭.

[Thomas_Helzle]

hahaha - of course.

I just felt that currently a lot of ingrained workflows are “challenged” and quite some muscle memory needs retraining anyway, so it may be a good moment to get it over with.

I don’t know how often advanced users use the current TAB function, it was explained to me at the user meeting what it does but so far never felt the need for it, but of course I’m biased towards new users. ;-)

Cheers!

Tom

[gregsn]

@chk

I think the old design for the pin indicators was perfect, those tiny gray triangles that have the same size as the pins themselves. IMO there is no need to make them as big as they are now, or even in another color.

Well, the idea here was to use the same hover color as in the node browser and I personally liked it, since here I also want to have the feedback that I hover a datahub that is ready to accept my link gesture.

But anyway tried yet another styling and size. That’s just me being fearless, but I am happy to revert this if it doesn’t add any value.

[gregsn]

@yar

@chk All right. Let’s use a term like this - “Seal the deal”! Make sense. But I guarantee, given the multilingual nature of the users, it will cause a lot of confusion. It will probably have to be called something else one day.

Happy to change that setting name. Especially since I wasn’t sure about the default. It’s always good to know the best default of a new setting since that value then gets stored on the users’ machine. So again: happy to change the name and default. For now it was just meant to let you play with it.

[Thomas_Helzle]

Re: Pin Indicators:
I personally liked the more obvious “connect here” brighter colour, just found the triangles a bit large at one point.
I like it a lot in 117 that I’m using right now, good balance IMO with the size and the colour is good, although it could be slightly brighter for me personally, but I’m good any way.

Cheers,

Tom

[gregsn]

@sebescudie

What about snapping nodes to a grid? That would allow to make cleaner patches more easily. I really like all the stuff you can do in Châtaigne : having a grid with a custom resolution, snapping to it or not, center/align/distribute nodes with a UI :

I am pretty confident that this is a good idea and we’ll try to squeeze that onto our roadmap.
Thanks for bringing it up again!

[sebl]

maybe rendering operation assigned nodes (the dot left to nodes) more prominent would also fit into the current sprint?
this thread illustrates the current difficulties a bit: You're invited to talk on Matrix

I could imagine a colored outline for such manually assigned nodes. the color would be the operation color.

not important but could be quite quick to change.

[chk]

@sebescudie

What about snapping nodes to a grid? That would allow to make cleaner patches more easily. I really like all the stuff you can do in Châtaigne : having a grid with a custom resolution, snapping to it or not, center/align/distribute nodes with a UI :

+1! I noticed how much my patching speed increased since the new goodies (dragging links, node browser opening automatically, node suggestions by type, naming things from node browser when creating, …). For me this would be a true game changer, because I waste so much time properly aligning everything. Now we could argue if that was my problem or not… but it would make my life a lot easier!