Power render engine for AE - possibale?

vvvv beta question
#1

Hello one & all
Maybe you would find my question surreal
Am total newb here. i have only scratched the surface w vvvv
but
i was wondering if u would know/think if its possible to create a power render engine with vvvv for rendering AE projects,
i am looking for a powerfull tool,
somthing like the Maya external rendering plug-inns
or am i dreaming>?

thanks
ray-v

#2

fully implementing all ae effects would be far beyond vvvv´s capabilities - there would be way too many effects and plugins to consider. while it may be possible to patch a reader for simple edit decision lists in vvvv (google EDL), i somehow suspect it would be feasible to patch a generic after effects file opener.

also: while vvvv is really fast at some things, not all effects can be done with that speed. the real speed advantage in vvvv is using 3d hardware and shaders, and not all of after effect filters can be emulated with that.

for now i suggest rigging up one computer with a midi sequencer and having a second machine with vvvv responding to that midi input.

we are thinking about timeline modules in vvvv, but this will take a lot of time to materialize

#3

timeline modules would be wicked, mr. oschatz…that’s almost the only advantage of ventuz and something i really miss in vvvv.

#4

I think that timelines in general are hard to combine with the basic concept of interacting objects.
VVVV programs are more like networks instead of scripts.
Of course partly sequenced systems within a patch often make sense, but global timelines like in AE, Flash, Director etc. add a linear structure to your project, which is a whole different concept.
Maybe you should take a look at the simple sequencer modules I have in my userpage and play with them to get an idea of how to integrate sequenced elements into dynamic systems.
As far as I remember, Eno did a cool and pretty comprehensive sequencer once, but I don’t know if it’s still available and working in the new VVVV-version.

Cheers,
Sven

#5

the timline will be a node with a window, what you do with the output is up to you …

#6

similar to that max msp timeline node?

#7

@sven, i’m aware of the nature of v4 and i love this appraoch but a professional looking, tweakable timeline as an integrated module/node would be very useful. sure u can patch something together but this won’t be as effective as a proper node/window.

@tonfilm…hope it doesn’t look like the max timeline, better would be something like afx 6.5

#8

hm, thats the second time i hear about the after effects timeline, i should have a look at it …

#9

We had thought about using the AE timeline before as it is admirably useful. From what I remember (this was years ago), with the AE SDK you could write a renderer plugin that’s running within After effects. Now if you made one that simply renders the values into OSC channels-? Then AE would be the sequencer (an expensive one, but hey), and vvvv could run as a slave to that.

I am aware that AE is not intended for real-time operation. But there is a realtime playback function at least, so I suppose it might be possible.

Otherwise, at least you could create a renderer plug-in that writes a frame-by-frame parameter dump file which could be evaluated by a rather simple vvvv patch… less elegant, but portable.

#10

hey everyone,

thanks everyone here for the answers so far, very cool

max - its really interesting - did u ever tried it evetually?

ton film - will u be intersting to be able to use both tools somhow
AE timeline & vvvv
a - for non real time actions [power render engine](power render engine)
as well as for real time … well that’s make the list of options even longer

really looking forward to read more
cheers
ray-v

#11

We haven’t gone deeper into using After Effects. No point in publishing a software for 500€ when the timeline module would cost an additional 1000. The SDK is non-trivial to use and requires time to get into.

My next suggestion (having just had a quick look at it) would be that some able python geek could quite easily write a plug-in for blender that exports values from BLENDER’s animation / keyframe / editor to OSC or a nother network-based protocol.

Pros:

  • very powerful editor
  • open source: feel-good karma points
  • very scalable from being a timeline to being the complete 3D asset editor solution plugged into vvvv.

Cons:

  • none

any opinions?

#12

regarding the timeline module i’m playing devils advocate …have a look at the ventuz timeline…

http://www.ventuz.com/products/tour_animation.aspx#

it proofed to be useful. i think important is to keep the realtime character of v4. importing some timeline data from somewhere else doesn’t make sense to me. sure it’s not an easy task to get something like that smoothly integrated into v4’s concept

#13

an old little idea of mine

  • write a vst plugin for use within live, cubase etc.
  • have the vst plug host a little network interface to create control parameter inputs at run time. sending a command via network could for example create two control parameter inputs with the names “width” and “height” while the plugin is running. (an embedded web server using standard HTTP for that purpose would give additional coolness points).
  • when the plugin has control inputs defined, the plugin doesnt process them in any way - it just broadcasts the incoming values via udp
  • a simple vvvv patch can pick up the values and does whatever someone want within vvvv.
  • a little vvvv patch with the cool new getpatch and setpatch nodes can automatically configure the plugin to control any subpatches

voila. use the timeline of any audio sequencer to do whatever you like. and have the usual sample accurate audio stuff around when someone needs it.

and have the ventuz automata/timeline crossbreed supporting vst plugins. respect.