Thats a very thoughtfull and practical solution. Thank you for putting the effort in this!
(postponed)
i like.
it doesn’t force abandoning part of a naive tribal symbolism, and avoids pain and most likely breaking changes in a small subset of projects.
now, who wants to have the honors and open a thread about how we as a community can have a more welcome culture, not limited to, but especially warm-hearted for future female patchers?
1 Like
PC put aside - I think the more people you try to please the more diversity you loose. And those silly jokes and wordplays contribute to the unique character of vvvv. In a world where everyone tries to be so f*ing professional I enjoy skilled people who do not take themselves too seriously.
btw if you rename girlpower I demand that you do the same for boygrouping.
schlonzo, that’s just one of many opinions.
And I really don’t want any male patcher to express their thoughts or opinions on this anymore, we’re really not in the position to do any assumptions on how anyone is or is not supposed to be offended by such things.
Solution sounds reasonable.
Renaming boygrouping doesn’t.
@gregsn semi
midterm honestly sounds like the ‘over the rainbow’ timeframe. but prove me wrong.
the folder name is visible in the title bar when you open the patch. so the name will definitely stick around.
having a menu point definitely helps. but probably not as much as one would like, since the menu is super hard to find for beginners. and i don’t believe you’re about to integrate some proper menu into vvvv.
vvvv doesn’t come with a startmenu entry and due to dependencies setup.exe is a must for every fresh beginner. and since there is no lauch option in setup, one’s first footsteps in will be in the vvvv root folder. (left aside the times when you install addonpack, and other packs).
there is no hint to examples/documentation what so ever, except when you know what the term girlpower is.
so my easy fix suggestions:
- put a weblink to vvvv.org/documentation next to vvvv.exe
- rename girlpower to examples, but create a hardlink named girlpower pointing to examples (this way nothing should break)
- in setup.exe add a link to documentation, a button to launch vvvv, an option to pop up examples/girlpower folder
(* having seen how erratic new users handle vvvv when they are lost, maybe the closing dialog would also be a good place to add some hints for help)
in that regard we have a quite prominent UI shortcut free, the F1 button. currently it just opens a general help patch, but we thought we can replace that easily with a help/example browser. also have it in the leaf menu of course. other options will also be discussed in detail… thanks for the ideas, we’ll come back to this.
@tonfilm , a shortcut is a hidden interaction in the first place. a button / dropdown is something you see and don’t have to look up or search. like proposed by vux.
1 Like
hope you all had a great international women day
wanted to share a great site full of insights to relate to, if you still ponder, whether a folders name might be an issue or not
1 Like
thanks, i think we all agree that we want a present and future with more female coders and that there is a weird cultural legacy that doesn’t really support that, but what i don’t get is whether you mean that this is an argument pro or cons the girlpower folder?
I would have preferred not to explicitly interpret that, and let those women speak for their own. also I did not want to jeopardize the consensus we found months ago.
but since @tonfilm seemed to be confused, here you go:
all these reports share an abundance of discouragement, and a lack of encouragement towards girls that have an interest in code/science/logic. this seems ongoing, so I would not call it “legacy”, as that would be wishful thinking.
none of them claimed that code/science/logic themselves were part of that discouragement, instead they often find fault in the society at large and, most often, their direct social surroundings. expectations from their very parents and their peers seem to play a major role: only the bravest girls have the stamina and long-term courage to imagine themselves as developers, when their immediate surroundings keep on doubting them.
also those reports show, that this bias against women in tech is at least equally coming from the patriarchy and the matriarchy: turns out a chauvinist “girls can’t code” is just as harmful as an arrogant “girls should not hang with nerds”.
so all these women taking the time to write down their experiences are to me neither an argument pro or con the folder’s name. instead they show clearly, that a lot of their “hardship” has been grossly misrepresented in this thread - a folders name is rather irrelevant compared to the psychological barriers that exist and enforce sexist discrepancies in tech, and much of that is not coming from the world of tech, but the outside.
it also gives me a vague hint on how female inclusion should focus on encouragement, a little humor, a confident “you can do it” and ongoing learning support while getting deeper into it, and explicitly stating that we truely care about the interest and drive anyone brings to the table, regardless of their gender.
I feel more than ever, it should be about inclusion in general, more than a specialized and artificial female inclusion, because that is just sexism in the complex plane.
edit:
however, I really want everyone to make her or his own discoveries in the reports linked above, and come up with your own wholesome learning synthesis from all those first-hand experiences
hopefully, such an approach will guide us as a community to be more ready to quarrel “hot irons” in the future and still be able to find common grounds.
For all its shortcomings, this thread was good.
3 Likes
Missed the thread about being offended by a folder, good read.
When I started using vvvv It became clear that developers had an attitude of being FUN with their software. From the first site categories, the licensing table about comercial use… etc.
btw, any girl with powers commented here ?
1 Like
@manuel: ain, idwyr and veevee who posted in this thread
ah yeah the practical result was the new UI for help patches in VL and the search inclusion for the “examples” folder too while keeping support for girlpower.
the empirical result is that something all participants probably took from this to think about. Or didn’t. I dunno. “Everything I know is wrong” ;)
Yeah that UI for help patches is great
Also gamma has some cool help patches
This topic was automatically closed 365 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.