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Community Project

little reminder: 20 pm gmt +1 in irc channel ##vvvvCP on freenode

IRC Chat log for the users missed, Hope to see more users to join

23:20 tekcor: how to tchat?

23:29 <@tekcor> okey…

23:30 hum syntaxe username: is global tchat or pm?

23:31 <@tekcor> what is tchat karistouf?

23:31 global discussion

23:32 <@tekcor> btw can you both skype at the moment? because if we are only two we also could talk directly

23:32 no more skype sorty

23:32 sorry

23:32 <@tekcor> ha :)

23:32 <@tekcor> okey

23:32 <@tekcor> anyway

23:33 <@tekcor> i talked with david brüll whos organizing node13 festival

23:33 yes?

23:33 <@tekcor> and he said this is nice and everything

23:34 great!

23:34 <@tekcor> and we need a clear description about the project

23:34 <@tekcor> with space and materials

23:34 <@tekcor> drafts

23:34 <@tekcor> for the organisation

23:34 <@tekcor> so we should get clear about this first of all :)

23:35 one moment… let me check the thread and see if someone wrote there and appear online on skype to buzz

23:35 hum, sorry but you want to release cp for node 13 ? hi urbankind!

23:36 <@tekcor> yes thats what i thougth would be nice to have the space there

23:36 <@tekcor> what you’re thinking?

23:36 no one online on skype who wrote on the thread

23:37 i m completely busy until next march. i think i cant get involved heavely :-(

23:37 <@tekcor> okey good to know

23:37 Hello karistouf :)

23:37 hi urbankind;-)

23:38 so the project idea is robotic controls?

23:38 <@tekcor> hm

23:38 <@tekcor> i went pretty far with my thougth in the thread

23:39 <@tekcor> this could be part of it

23:39 <@tekcor> now i think to make this a community project it would be easyer to a lot of people to participate

23:39 <@tekcor> if it would be simply the space

23:40 ok how do u use vvvv and what for usually ?

23:40 to be honest its a bit too much for my level even to understnad but i try my best in an effort to contribute and learn

23:40 i think a cp is usually around common desires and needs

23:40 <@tekcor> like a generative geometry which will be built and peoples mapping patches running on it

23:41 <@tekcor> yes okey

23:41 == everyoneishappy 5ce77380@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.231.115.128 has joined ##vvvvCP

23:41 <@tekcor> good to hear… was just my idea what i would try to bring in into an open space for the community

23:42 <@tekcor> hi everyoneishappy:)

23:42 hello, sorry I’m late :)

23:42 you bring the beers? ;-)

23:42 my first question would be - are we trying to realize on specific project keeping Node festival in mind or multiple ?

23:43 well, I’m not likey to make it to node as have a project the same time, but still keen to help

23:43 would be nice to have some outcomes that last also though eg cc assets for vvvv users

23:44 <@tekcor> cool… but the node date isnt fully clear?

23:44 thought it was in Jan?

23:44 its in feb i suppose

23:44 <@tekcor> think theres nothing too official

23:45 February 11th–17th 2013 says atm

23:45 <@tekcor> cc assets?

23:45 sorry creative commons

23:45 <@tekcor> ah good to know ~

23:45 just stuff people can use

23:45 <@tekcor> yea totaly

23:45 hum… i m okay if we found a way to make

23:46 <@tekcor> <@tekcor> like a generative geometry which will be built and peoples mapping patches running on it

23:46 newbies enter more easely inside vvvvv

23:46 a canevas for simple easy use and open to expert use is domehow necessary

23:47 aka: how to vj when you are new with vvvv ?

23:47 is this something like switch boy ? iris?

23:48 like svvvvitcher but easier? switchboy never find a link to

23:48 <@tekcor> yea i think this vjing stuff is floating around enough

23:48 <@tekcor> sek

23:48 i m in theatre and dance and i m building things with vvvv as a renderboc

23:48 box

23:49 maybe i can design nice interface if that of any help

23:49 but untilnow i think there is a lack of indoor opened to newbies and either experts

23:50 <@tekcor> everyoneishappy to keep you updated: i talked with davod from node festival and it realy could get space there if we clearly line out what we do there with materials etc

23:50 <@tekcor> david*

23:50 <@tekcor> so we could go both ways

23:51 just to get big picture- is the idea broadly speaking to have a system set up onsite @ node that will cycle through template based sub patches from various people

23:51 <@tekcor> yes simply

23:51 everyone will be really happy :)

23:51 <@tekcor> for the beginning

23:52 <@tekcor> to fastly get througth to first process of setting up a geometry and a patching environment to map on it…

23:52 <@tekcor> and then extend it with tracking stuff

23:52 do you think that a structure could catch a renderer in a subpatch without having to set in/out nodes?

23:53 <@tekcor> hlsl struct?

23:53 == grandchild ~jakob@p4FC1ADB3.dip.t-dialin.net has joined ##vvvvCP

23:54 <@tekcor> or… why you asking?

23:54 no just a renderer: load a subpatch, if there is a renderer not connected it is its output, autoconnected to the system

23:54 maybe easy option would be to just have a development patch with a template subpatch inside

23:55 the IO that is need in all cases can be defined, people can run extra inputs from the subpatch if they want and the renderer is in the parent patch

23:55 better would be to have a grabber rather than a subpatch framework

23:56 == Guest4580 ~anonymous@AVelizy-153-1-74-241.w86-195.abo.wanadoo.fr

23:56 <@tekcor> to change patches within a node?

23:56 i think io is restriction and closing vvvv to a lot of people

23:57 well, you can add to it, but it’s just what HAS to be there

23:57 <@tekcor> yea but i wouldn’t keep it too simple… i would focus more to work together with the people building the community rigth now…

23:58 <@tekcor> so basicaly should init a project on git

23:58 not sure everyoneishappy not sure

23:59 was just a thought, was thinking of texture filter nodes as example but don’t worry not attached to anything at this point

23:59 before git goals and definitions ;-)

23:59 <@tekcor> jea okey

23:59 <@tekcor> its also about different teams

00:00 <@tekcor> eg one team building the design for the real world geometry

00:00 <@tekcor> otheres developing the patch template"

00:01 <@tekcor> and more can contribute to it

00:02 <@tekcor> these contribution or sub projects can also be developed by small teams

00:02 <@tekcor> like you and your mates

00:04 <@tekcor> so there is this template environment in which everybody can do whatever he wants… to avoid clashes among people :D

00:04 everyoneishappy, what would you like to do ?

00:06 well it’s a bit early to say, but design and 3d modeling are both things I’m intrested in

00:06 <@tekcor> uw…

00:07 <@tekcor> did you get his answer?

00:07 <@tekcor> h99 cant join btw

00:07 no

00:08 <@tekcor> well it’s a bit early to say, but design and 3d modeling are both things I’m intrested in

00:08 well it’s a bit early to say, but design and 3d modeling are both things I’m intrested in

00:08 <@tekcor> sry*-

00:08 there was some talk in the thread about using rigging also- i think there is a lot of intrest in this but it’s a bit of a bottleneck to produce- would be good to ask vux where the assimp lib stuff is at

00:09 rigging?

00:09 == readme__ ~readme_@dslb-178-004-236-049.pools.arcor-ip.net has joined ##vvvvCP

00:09 <@tekcor> jey

00:09 <readme__> yo!

00:09 atm there is not a good workflow from most 3d apps to vvvv- assimp might change that

00:10 @guest skinning

00:10 like collada spaceman?

00:10 <@tekcor> okey can you ask him?

00:10 sure

00:10 == readme_ u6071@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wwujzqgnrcdnnsco has joined ##vvvvCP

00:11 <@tekcor> cool this character animation is a big topic we’ll see if we can make something till feb2013

00:11 ok the framework would be for wich end usage?

00:12 <@tekcor> projection mapping and spatial interaction

00:12 <@tekcor> and heavy 3d and postfx

00:12 not same things i thk

00:14 <@tekcor> you have the geometry, there youre projecting things which interact with people (optional for everybody)

00:14 <@tekcor> okey say heavy 3d and postfx is optional too :>

00:15 <@tekcor> i dont think it is too much considering all the brainpower we’re utilizing

00:16 hum no its same. mapping on classical screen is postfx and3d

00:17 <@tekcor> okey wait

00:18 <@tekcor> what i ment is

00:18 <@tekcor> to not only build a mapping tool

00:19 <@tekcor> but also use for example mre to bring nice 3d on this surface

00:19 structure structure

00:19 structure again

00:20 right, this shall also help users to understand 3d content to map

00:22 <@tekcor> im lost now in this conversation… would you explain karistouf?

00:23 well you have 3d structure wich is the ending of the structure

00:23 it contains surfaces of projection

00:24 before you have texture work wich will be applyed to 3d surfaces

00:24 so we need an ending 3d structure and a texture dstruct

00:25 the suedtion is: how to great a dimple easy canvas for this

00:25 a gui ? user banging ?

00:27 <@tekcor> okey you mean a patch structure?

00:27 sorry! yes !

00:28 <@tekcor> youre fully rigth this would be most important step

00:28 <@tekcor> i would use a gui

00:29 and sorry my fingers have made some welding today. i missing ipod touches

00:29 what does the user need to do?

00:30 <@tekcor> oh damn forgott that youre on ipod x)

00:30 output a texture? more?

00:30 create a 3d surface

00:30 change a texture

00:31 load a patch as texture or 3d grometry

00:31 geometry

00:31 I think it would be good to provide the 3d model

00:31 <@tekcor> and sory i ment i wouldnt use a gui… more a simple chain with renderers showing the steps

00:31 so there a few different stages and taks here

00:32 maybe we could think on how to load on the fly 3d subpatches and textures?

00:32 broadly speaking, would it work to have a task order along these lines:

00:32 -design and concepting

00:32 -make devlopment patch + digital models

00:32 -collect modules

00:33 -make installation patch + physical models

00:33 <@tekcor> yes good

00:33 <@tekcor> and we need to make timeframes for these steps

00:33 <@tekcor> and clear who-does-what

00:34 you can always use the model as a basis to project other geometry on top

00:34 I thought you do everything tekcor :P

00:34 <@tekcor> karistouf can you take the mapping patch team then?

00:35 <@tekcor> you said you have a lot to do

00:35 <@tekcor> but just for protocol

00:36 hu before i need to find a way on how to load on the fly in an easy user friendly way

00:36 <@tekcor> thats another point :P im just initing this… and highly motivated and stuff… but can’t carry this alone in the end of course

00:37 <@tekcor> loading geometry or what?

00:37 you mean the modules?

00:38 well i have a lot of work around and i m actually finishing a new version of whitecat

00:38 so i can spend some time about texture modules first

00:39 and user friendly system

00:39 but not do much time

00:39 <@tekcor> that would be great… maybe more people find into this soon

00:39 <@tekcor> okey i init the main patch next week

00:40 <@tekcor> okey i have a lot to do too this week but see if i can make it because the faster the better

00:41 ok nice. have you set your vvvv id to receive mails?

00:42 <@tekcor> no

00:43 <@tekcor> but you can send to leavingtheplanet@googlemail.com

00:43 ok. Urbankind and everyoneishappy what would you lile to do?

00:43 <@tekcor> and add me in skype when you have it running

00:45 My strength is design, i can design GUI and maybe little patching as well

00:45 ah ah nice!

00:46 <@tekcor> yea you can for the first task work on the object

00:46 <@tekcor> ill do too

00:46 <@tekcor> and everyoneishappy maybe too

00:46 sure

00:47 <@tekcor> we should finish this concept soon to calculate everything else for the installation

00:47 ok keep in touch ;-)

00:47 Sure, lets keep in touch :)

00:48 …and tekcor, highly appreciate your initiative (Y)

00:48 <@tekcor> okey and ill post this and hope more vvvv people join on it

00:48 Cheers

00:48 <@tekcor> yey thank i would realy love to see something nice evolving here

As we move from drop box to git hub it’s time to invite you to join us on doing this.

https://github.com/tekcor/VVVVCP

Mainly in the last week h99, everyoneishappy and me found some time and ambition to work together on this project. We moved a bit from the initial idea of starting with a projection mapping space to the focus on modelling and thinking about character design and animation, having in mind that the character should interact with people on a realistic level. I think it was just important to start somewhere.

We also thought about the patch organisation structure coming to the conclusion that everything should be modularized clearly to make it possible to work on this project with many people involved. But to keep the overview it also should not be too much … okey nothing new so far for vvvv patcher… but i wanted to lay down this important point anyway.

What i did so far is simply a copy and paste job from amazing contributions made by high skilled users. basically to have nice graphics to keep us motivated and to have an idea about the patch structure. I joined microdees motion blur with the MRE engine from dottore, unc, m4d and vux and plugged in a very dump skeleton from my older experiments with the skeleton nodes by zauner.

anyway it’s just the first step and you can see from the sketches in which direction this should go (to find in the repository).

so if you are interested in learning by doing or adding things you already know, just have a look in the repository and see if you want to dig in any direction.

e: its a bit early to call it community project already, because there are other projects driven by users with more things happening. But it’s the thought to maybe really get A LOT of people involved.

Did this first modelling prototype from the concept art- we will redesign it from the ground up with patch functionality in mind, and would like to have a good level of detail baked in to the final model. Hopefully functional and pretty, or at least as pretty as alien mechanical bugs can be…

I like this community project thing.
I came late and see you have come up with more or less what it will be about.
I like very much the idea of doing some robots.
I think maybe it needs a little more concept on how are this organisms going to look and behave.
I think it would be really cool if the whole working methodology of lots of different patchers can be part of how the installation behaves. Something about emergent behavior and that kind of stuff.

[quote=“Wikipedia”]
In philosophy, systems theory, science, and art, emergence is the way complex systems and patterns arise out of a multiplicity of relatively simple interactions. Emergence is central to the theories of integrative levels and of complex systems.
[/quote] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergence
Take as reference this work that was on Node10: https://secure.flickr.com/photos/watz/5205952908/in/pool-node10/

alien mechanical bugs sounds a bit dark and scary. something a bit more friendly maybe?

Hello,

and

This is exactly what we have in mind, more on a technical side than other; indeed is important to understand how to proceed just to not waste time and energy. Very next steps are building a “boxes model” to set a basic general rigging; then, modeling different creatures, each of us with its idea in mind so to join, eg, the best ideas.

So this brings to

since teckor has the idea to set up an environment in which the user would interact with the creature, which should be able to express a (wide) range of behaviors, from aggressive to friendly. Github is there for this reason and some of these concepts can be also found there.
For example I would do something able to interact with both adults and children, being tough or friendly with first ones according to their behavior, and anyway nice and playful with second ones.

Respect,
Ciao

yea exactly, it’s maybe too dark and scary at the moment. the first drafts went in this direction, i think because it’s not quite easy to let an insect look beautifull and esthetic. but it is also a big challenge to do so. what i’m thinking of for some time now is basically the idea of realy play with the emotions of a user of such an installation by simulating an organism which is taken for real in a way. with big projections and precice tracking and sound. a future use case for something like this would be for example a humanoid telling bypassers something they want to know from wikipedia or encouraging them in their personal interest or something. but since speeking and realistic body and face movement is a bit beyond at the moment, i would love to do first experiments with this on a more abstract and instinctive level. mechanical insects is where i ended up with this thought. because it is easyer to model an organism which builds up out of segments (no soft skin). and insects can on the one hand of course call deepest fear from users association but i’m sure they could also be recognized as something beautifull and friendly and playfull if animated well enough. and it would nicely represent the technological singularity we’re heading to with something like this :D

but actualy this is only where we started now and in case of a community project everything you could imagine and willing to work on can flow into it. in fact i’ve no idea where this could lead to.

[quote=“ventolinmono”]

[/quote]In philosophy, systems theory, science, and art, emergence is the way complex systems and patterns arise out of a multiplicity of relatively simple interactions. Emergence is central to the theories of integrative levels and of complex systems.

good one :)

Hei gais check this: http://www.opengenerativedesign.com/2012/06/14/successful-cellular-modeling/
Looking at Github’s sketches and thinking about doing Lego (Like the cellular modeling above.)
Simple parts -> complex object.
If you follow simple forms, things could be 3D printed later and this project will be IRL.

looks interesting. did you have a look on the code allready?

i found this paper http://grail.cs.washington.edu/projects/motion-fields/

motion field based real time character animation.
what they do is to use a large data set of motion capture data and check every frame with nearest neighbour estimation what possible poses exist.

i think a database could also be created with a lot of different collada animations and you would need physics and collisions and gpu accelerations…

very though but should give best animation result.

Note there’s a https://discourse.vvvv.org/ regarding beta28.

Ciao